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International connections

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Friends in the opposition
Julia Hartwig Poet
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Well, during martial law most of our friends were interned so it was a bit difficult to work with them but when they were released – regarding Michnik – this occurred periodically because he was in turn either free or being arrested many times over. We became great friends with Adam Michnik and this friendship has lasted to the present day. When I was in Rome recently, he was there, too, and he was delighted to go around Rome with us – Ania Piotrowska was there, too – and was thrilled by what he saw, and kept crying out, 'What a city! What a city!' which was very pleasant to hear. And so Michnik. Michnik was someone who very much wanted everybody to be together as one group or for people to meet. So, for instance, he brought Frasyniuk to us here with whom we'd had no contact, of course, until later when he became chairman of the Stronnictwo Demokratyczne [Democratic Party] or what was it called? In any case, he brought Frasyniuk to us and some other activists whom he wanted us to meet. This was a very good tactic, besides we used to get to know each other – I haven't mentioned this yet – at committee meetings with Wałęsa. It was a type of committee, of course it was an elite group but made up of many people from different backgrounds, and we were both there, too. Among the writers there was, for instance, Jacek Bocheński, as I recall, as well as activists, union activists, those who were linked with the self-governing union and this was all... it was all happening illegally despite which, nobody tried to disrupt these meetings. For instance, we met in a church that was under construction and someone heated up some pea soup which we ate and then continued with the meeting. We also travelled. There was... a series of meetings in Gdańsk where that priest was in charge, our priest?

[Q] Jankowski?

What? Jankowski, of course, yes... where Jankowski... he gave us a hot meal and he showed us around his apartment which was hard to beat in terms of luxury and bad taste. Still, at that point he was still on the side of the cause, he was one of those people who helped Solidarity, he was supportive – it was later that something went terribly wrong with him.

W stanie wojennym to właściwie przeważnie nasi przyjaciele siedzieli, więc nie bardzo można było z nimi współpracować, natomiast jak zostali wypuszczani, to znaczy Michnik okresowo, bo to właściwie na zmianę albo był wolny, albo go aresztowano wielokrotnie. Bardzo żeśmy się zaprzyjaźnili właśnie z Adamem Michnikiem także i... a... i do dzisiaj ta przyjaźń trwa. Teraz jak byłam w Rzymie, to on akurat był w Rzymie i z przyjemnością z nami – bo jeszcze z Anią Piotrowską – z nami chodził po Rzymie i zachwycał się i wołał: „Co za miasto, co za miasto!”, co było bardzo przyjemnie słyszeć. To... no, Michnik – Michnik był człowiekiem, który bardzo chciał, żeby wszyscy byli razem – jeśli chodzi o taką grupę – aby się widywali. Więc na przykład sprowadził nam tutaj Frasyniuka, który... z którym nie mieliśmy kontaktu oczywiście, a dopiero potem, kiedy był prezesem stronnictwa demokratycznego, znaczy jak to się nazywało? [?] W każdym razie przyprowadził nam Frasynika... Frasyniuka, sprowadził nam jeszcze jakichś innych działaczy, którzy... po prostu chciał, żebyśmy się zapoznali. To był bardzo dobry sposób, zresztą myśmy się zapoznawali na... na – o tym jeszcze nie mówiłam – na takich spotkaniach komitetu przy Wałęsie. To był taki komitet... oczywiście elitarny, ale liczny... to był... bardzo liczni ludzie z różnych dziedzin tam byli, myśmy tam byli oboje. Tam był, na przykład z pisarzy, to tam był jeszcze Jacek Bocheński, jak pamiętam, a poza tym to byli działacze... działacze związkowi, działacze samorządowi, no ci, którzy byli z... z samorządem związani i to był... tak że to właściwie wszystko się odbywało nielegalnie, ale w jakiś sposób nie... nie przeszkadzano temu. Na przykład mieliśmy w jednym z budujących się kościołów takie spotkanie, gdzie nawet podgrzewano grochówkę i myśmy to jedli, a potem jeszcze obradowaliśmy, poza tym wyjeżdżaliśmy także. Była... była taka sesja w Gdańsku, gdzie... gdzie urzędował wtedy ksiądz, ten nasz...

[Q] Jankowski?

Co? Jankowski oczywiście, tak. Gdzie Jankowski nas też przy... nam jakieś grzane coś, jakieś... jakieś danie dawał i pokazał nam swoje mieszkanie, które luksusem i złym gustem, któremu trudno byłoby dorównać rzeczywiście. No, ale on jeszcze wtedy był za sprawą, to był jednak z tych ludzi... jednym z tych ludzi, którzy pomagali i którzy jednak „Solidarności” sprzyjali, no potem się stały jakieś straszne rzeczy z nim.

Born to a Polish father and a Russian mother, Julia Hartwig (1921-2017) was a Polish poet, essayist, translator and author of children's books. She studied at the University of Warsaw, the Catholic University in Lublin and the Jagiellonian University in Kraków. Czesław Miłosz called her 'the grande dame of Polish poetry'. Julia Hartwig was one of the few poets in Poland who made masterly use of poetic prose. She translated poems by Apollinaire, Rimbaud, Max Jacob, Cendrars and Supervielle, and published monographs on Apollinaire and Gerard de Nerval. She also translated from English, and published a large anthology of American poetry which she co-edited in 1992 with her late husband, the poet Artur Międzyrzecki.

Listeners: Andrzej Wolski

Film director and documentary maker, Andrzej Wolski has made around 40 films since 1982 for French television, the BBC, TVP and other TV networks. He specializes in portraits and in historical films. Films that he has directed or written the screenplay for include Kultura, which he co-directed with Agnieszka Holland, and KOR which presents the history of the Worker’s Defence Committee as told by its members. Andrzej Wolski has received many awards for his work, including the UNESCO Grand Prix at the Festival du Film d’Art.

Tags: Rome, Stronnictwo Demokratyczne, Democratic Party, Solidarity, Adam Michnik, Anna Piotrowska, Władysław Frasyniuk, Lech Wałęsa, Jacek Bocheński, Henryk Jankowski

Duration: 2 minutes, 53 seconds

Date story recorded: June 2010

Date story went live: 15 June 2011