Some 30 to 32 watches were made by these hand methods during a 30 year period, which is approximately one per year. And I rather began to run out of ideas and I didn't see much point in going on. I didn't want to make the same watches again and so I began to lose interest, which seems a curious thing to say because I had a lifetime's interest in watches, but on the other hand, if it wasn't going to be a challenge, there wasn't any point in it and I could go and do something else. So then it was that I had a telephone call from Roger Smith who, the young man had set out to become a watchmaker and he'd made his first watch and he was very complimentary and he got his ideas out of the Watchmaking book and he'd produced a very presentable watch, not quite perfect, but a very good start. So we had a talk about it and he decided he'd go and make it again, which he did and it was very good, and then to my surprise he phoned me again a year or so later and said he'd like to come over and work with me. That's what you said, I think?

[Q] No, you asked me I think.

Oh, did I? OK. So you said you'd like to?

[Q] Yes. You were working on the co-axials with Switzerland then.

Yes, well I was working on the project with Omega in Switzerland, and once we'd started in Switzerland and we got the ébauche, that is the basic movement sorted out and what was going to be done to it, I got 50 movements from them to bring back here to make up 50 watches under my own name but using the Omega ébauche and my escapement. And I needed some assistance on this, I didn't really want to make 50 watches myself, and so it was Roger and I got together and he came as my assistant and worked on these watches. I had already made the prototype, which I still have, and I'd fitted my own calendar to it and finished it off in the English fashion and more or less left it to Roger then to get on and make the other 50 watches, which he did very satisfactorily.