There was an incredible anti-private enterprise sentiment. I mean, there were... these non-profits had their own way, everything they did, it was always holier than thou attitude that, you know, we can only do things right. That’s why the American Chemical Society never wanted to do everything, because they thought whatever they did, that was the gospel. So it even carried over, that's right... when I was at Oak Ridge I reminded them last week about the fact that the Federation of Abstracting and Indexing Services, when it was set up it was purely for non-profits and the government; you could not be a member if you were... ISI could not be a member; Roy Hill [of McGraw-Hill] couldn’t and so on. That’s why we started, me, Boris Anžlovar, Jeff Norton, Bill Knox and Saul Herner were the five guys that founded the Information Industry Association. And not only that, that IIA has become SIIA, the Software and Information Industry Association. Today, of course, it has changed; ISI is a member of NFAIS and so on. But in the early days, the government would not give any kind of grant to us. If they gave anything it was a contract, they set the terms. And you know how often NSF tried to screw us out of our own data. Because Mort Malin had worked at NSF and he had negotiated some kind of a scholar's deal with them, and they used that, scholars were allowed to use our data for, you know, their own personal research, but they use that as a way to give the information to Francis Narin, give him the contract to do the work. That’s how it all happened, and it took us years to get out of that bind