Tony and I, it really got me interested in that, and just about that time, Oliver Smithies had developed the... the gel method of electrophoresis and it started off with using potato starch to make the gel. Well, Oliver was a student of Sandy Ogston's. He was... he’s got to have been Sandy's most brilliant student; the man is a theoretical biochemist, a... a... very good with his hands. We had one of... water... we had a constant temperature bath that he had invented, an amazing piece of machinery. He was... he's a... an award-winning pilot, you know, he's flown across the Atlantic, I think, solo, you know, several times and has... amazing fellow. In any case, Sandy had been there before me, not Sandy, Oliver Smithies, and he had invested this starch gel technique and Tony and I were among the first people to use it. And of course they went onto cyanagum gels and other kinds of gels subsequently. But that's the whole kind of whole basis of these gels that you look at in molecular biology now. But in those days, of course, you couldn't look at the genes, but you could look at the phenotypes. So we decided on a kind of program of... of looking at variation, but not variation in general, but variation that you could measure quite accurately and that would be in serum protein phenotypes and other things in the urine and other characteristics too, but primarily looking at these phenotypes... using this gel technique that had just been introduced. Because you got a lot more variation, a lot more separation with that because the separation was dependent on charge and size, and then as the techniques improved, and you... there were... there were buffers, you can get even much more separation than the then two-dimensional, three, two-dimensional techniques. We started off with a fairly simple plan, and the plan was we were going to go around the world, collect blood specimens from people and look at variations in proteins. We also studied red blood cell antigens; that was... techniques were fairly well established for that. So, the first trip we took was to Spain, to the Basque Country and then the plan was to go to West Africa. And...  and then I did... so my last year in graduate school, I took off for... for... it must have been a month or six weeks, and went to Nigeria. No, mind you, first of all, my last year as a graduate student, Sandy let me go on this, he knew I was interested, our daughter had just been born, right, so that started a rather bad pattern of going away at crucial times, which my wife supported - I think with difficulty, but did.