[RV] I should mention that part of the Library that my mother left to me was Bernard Shaw writing.  She loved Bernard Shaw as a… a socialist, what do you call a socialist who is a non…

[DSB] Fabian.

[RV] Fabian Socialists, and who are the other Fabian Socialists who wrote, I don’t know…

[DSB] The Webb’s.

[RV] The Webb’s, yes, so she had all these books that she was… had become an expert on. Mention rather quickly is… I… I, my life does not contain very many moments of… what do you call a moment of quick and um?

[DSB] Epiphany.

[RV] Epiphanies at all.  I don’t like epiphanies but there was one, where after I had lived in Rome for two years at the American Academy in the '50s, and I was about to leave Rome, suddenly it occurred to me in my studio at the academy, that I really was a Mannerist, that I really loved Mannerism.  It wasn’t the Baroque Rome, it was Mannerist Rome which was really, really a kind of – kind of tricky – which was… which was really fun.