[Q] Your vision for Cold Spring Harbor when you started, did it include building this exceptional, large research institute?

No, no, it was just you know, I learned the rule, you either get bigger or smaller, and like we when monoclonal antibodies came along, we thought well, we have to have a facility to build them. So we built, by any standard, a small edition. We called it the Sambrook Lab, and there, you know, in that building at Harlow they had antibodies and that was the experiment that showed that the Adno E1A protein bound the RB. So, we've finally understand tumor suppressors... So we hadn’t built the building [unclear]. So, good staff will leave, but that then leads to finally you are becoming bigger than... I think that way would work if you didn’t have tenure, but really, every place in the world has tenure and so after a while every place gets too big. You know, finally, I mean just like in a Malthusian way, you will  increase faster than your inherent resources. And so all these new buildings we built, they may stay half empty for the next 20 years. But, you know, if when the recovery occurs you are going to have the buildings and you can go ahead. At Harvard, the reason I could go there with assurance is the bio labs had never been completed. It has space that was never finished. It was built during the Great Depression, you know, a decision, and but then when it was finished there was no money to occupy it. So, we have six buildings just finished now, and we don’t have the money to... I think if we make the decision where we try and cure cancer we could occupy them, but I think we will persist in just going along understanding cancer. It’s going to be very hard, so you’ve got to... you’ve got to always sense where you are in history.