It was at the time of the Nixon administration, although at that time the committee was more or less self-perpetuating with the permission of the political authorities. So it didn't imply... my membership didn't imply that I was a Nixon supporter. No, I understand, I understand... No, but I thought that was an interesting point to make because now in the last... in the last couple of administrations... last... yeah, in the last couple of administrations... Clinton and Bush, service on an analogous body has really been for people who more or less supported the administration.

[Q] Ah, I see, Yes. And… and this is PCAST is now what you're serving on?

The present one is called PCAST: the President's Council of Advisers on Science and Technology, and I'm the only human link between it and the old PSAC, the only person who's served on both.

[Q] So maybe, I think it would be very interesting to hear your views on that, having served on both: different eras, different conditions under which you've served. You have some thoughts on that?

Well I don't…

[Q]And in particular scientific involvement with politics?

Yes. I don't think there's anything wrong with the change. I don't think… I think that pretending that such a committee can be really independent is not that worthwhile. I think that one probably does better having a committee that is frankly in some degree of sympathy with the administration, and can therefore help the administration in what it needs. It needs advice on, from scientific and technical people, on what sorts of things to do. So, I'm not upset at all about that change. And it has not been of a… of a nasty kind, that is, there is no… it… it's not a situation where political imperatives caused the scientists to betray their scientific consciences and say things they don't mean.

[Q] It's not… it’s not partisan in any way, in other words?

It's somewhat partisan, but not in a bad way. I don't see anything particularly wrong with it.