When we opened Anthology Film Archives, he purchased at a very nice price with the monies from Jerome Hill who paid for all of the prints, a print of Flaming Creatures and we showed it publicly and already... by that time, that we are talking now about 1971, the censorship laws were were practically abandoned in New York City, and I think that the case of Flaming Creatures contributed a lot to that because there was so much discussion of censorship, film censorship because of that.

And then like a year later Jack comes in and he says he wants more money for the print, he needs money. I said, 'No, I don't have because the print was paid by Jerome Hill Foundation and they paid it all and better than some others'. But I checked with the foundation and said, 'No, they cannot'. So he, from there on, he began turning against, you know, Anthology and me. He declared that I am a landlord and a lobster, and he had very funny names invented to describe me. And I became a personage in many of his productions and he always told me not to go to see... he almost forbid me to go to see any of them. He did not want to have me in any of his... in those... I went once and he told me to go out, not to watch it. I thought I will, you know, maybe put a mask and... and I did not take it very seriously because I knew how complex he is and I knew that he... he is... and yet he was... it was not a game, it was serious, he took it, he really meant it but that... that is what... how he was and all his work was.

I mean, he, Jack Smith was another one that one could, sort of, call if one wants a genius because, you know, he's a genius, one who really changes directions art and a very, very deep way. I mean, in theatre he was doing so many different things: and photography, and theatre, and cinema, whatever, in every of those areas. He... he went into new directions and inspired others and created, like, followers who then later proceeded and went to those directions that he started. So he was a... a pioneer and... but as I say, complex and... and a sort of suffering person. I don't know exactly how he grew up, somebody some day will look into it, but I know that his mother lived in Chicago and she used to call me like once a month or so. How is my son? Tell me how is my son doing? And she was just a working woman and obviously he did not write to her, not call her, so I had to be the one to tell her. So that was that much... of course, one can again talk and talk about Jack Smith.