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'Socialism can't be separated from democracy'

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National enthusiasm fuels the rebuilding of the country
Jan Józef Lipski Social activist
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So the political situation which arose in the first years after the war was initially very complicated and ambiguous. Because, on the one hand, the whole nation was indeed caught up in an enormous enthusiasm regarding the task of rebuilding the country. This was really genuine and enveloped everyone, almost everyone, and was really quite unique. As for me, I was only learning but I had a certain insight into this as my father, for example, was rebuilding the school of which he was headmaster from the very rubble. And I saw his... his very hard work and his enormous enthusiasm and this sense that if I'm rebuilding the school in which boys will learn to be... metal workers, lathe operators and so on, because it was that kind of school, well then... this is what Poland needs, this is what's essential. My father wasn't a communist sympathiser in any way, let the communists be communists, but Poland needed this. I saw this mainly through my father although it was apparent all around me and I could sense the atmosphere. On the other hand, we all knew that the prisons and other places belonging to the security services were still full of political prisoners where these people were treated appallingly and were tortured and so on, and we all knew this. Except that there was a certain conviction, which initially was vague. It was vaguely something like this, that in a situation that resembled a civil war, those who fell victim had all decided to fight and so they deserved our sympathy, and we were thoroughly disgusted with the way in which they were being treated. At the same time, however, there was a kind of hope that this period would soon be over after which things might be different. To be honest, I, in my sceptical way, was afraid that things would change for the worse rather than for the better because that was the impression I had, that as the authorities became stronger, they were taking over all of the places where social and political life was thriving which... from the point of view of this kind of life, which I or my friends would have liked to have imagined, would not have been necessary, but they most probably had something else in mind. These, however, were concerns and not convictions or certainties that it would happen this way. Except that the moment came, I can't say exactly when it happened because this passage was fluid as there were elements of this from the start. The moment came when it became obvious that people who were associated with the London resistance, the AK [Armia Krajowa (Home Army)], with all sorts of civilian agendas of the London resistance were being persecuted. The aim of this persecution wasn't only the destruction of this movement which actively opposed the authorities but was also directed against anyone who was active, and this, of course, changed our approach to the authorities.

Sytuacja polityczna, która się wytworzyła w tych pierwszych latach po wojnie była taka, właściwie bardzo z początku skomplikowana i niejednoznaczna. Bo tak, z jednej strony rzeczywiście cały naród był ogarnięty wielkim entuzjazmem w wypełnianiu tego zadania, którym jest odbudowa kraju. I to było rzeczywiście autentyczne, ogarniające wszystkich, prawie wszystkich, i coś w swoim rodzaju niezwykłym... czymś niezwykłym. No ja sam się tylko uczyłem, ale miałem pewien wgląd w to, że mój ojciec na przykład odbudowywał z gruzów, no szkołę, której był dyrektorem. I widziałem tę jego... i tę strasznie ciężką pracę, i ten wielki entuzjazm, i to poczucie, że jeżeli odbudowuje się szkołę, w której chłopcy będą się uczyli zawodów … tam ślusarzy, tokarzy i tak dalej, bo to tego rodzaju szkoła była – no to, że to dla Polski jest potrzebne, niezbędne. Ojciec nie był sympatykiem, w żadnym razie nie był sympatykiem komunistów, ale że komuniści komunistami, a to dla Polski jest konieczne. I głównie ja przez ojca widziałem to, ale to dokoła się też właśnie widziało i czuło się tę atmosferę. Z drugiej strony, wszyscy wiedzieliśmy, że więzienia i te różnego rodzaju lokale bezpieki, te różne komendy i tak dalej są zapełnione więźniami politycznymi, gdzie ci ludzie są straszliwie traktowani, torturowani i tak dalej – i to wiedzieliśmy. Z tym że panowało jakieś takie przeświadczenie, które z początku było niedokładnie... było to niedokładnie tak, ale prawie tak, że w warunkach takich trochę przypominających wojnę domową, że ci, którzy padają ofiarą tego, to są ci, którzy podjęli decyzję walki i w rezultacie im można było i zresztą tak było, że się im współczuło i że się było pełnym oburzenia na metody, jakimi oni są traktowani. Ale jednocześnie było jakby takie... taka nadzieja, że ten okres szybko się skończy i że być może wtedy będzie inaczej. Ja co prawda ze swoim sceptycyzmem bałem się, że będzie się raczej pogarszać niż polepszać, bo robiło na mnie to takie wrażenie, że ta władza w miarę umacniania się opanowuje coraz bardziej zdecydowanie te różne miejsca życia społecznego, politycznego, tak dalej, które z punktu widzenia takiego życia, które byśmy, ja czy moi przyjaciele, chcielibyśmy sobie wyobrazić, nie byłoby to konieczne, że oni prawdopodobnie co innego jednak mają na myśli. No, ale były to jednak obawy, a nie taka pewność, przekonanie, że to będzie... że to pójdzie inaczej. Z tym że tutaj w pewnym momencie – ja nie umiem wskazać w jakim to czasie dokładnie się stało, bo to przejście było... było płynne, bo od samego początku były elementy tego – w pewnym momencie można było zauważyć represjonowanie ludzi związanych z podziemiem londyńskim, z Armią Krajową, z różnymi cywilnymi agendami podziemia londyńskiego, że represje... represje idą już nie tylko w kierunku tępienia tego ruchu, który się czynnie przeciwstawia, ale że to w ogóle jest skierowane przeciwko tym, którzy wówczas byli czynni. I to oczywiście bardzo zmieniało nastawienie do tej władzy.

Jan Józef Lipski (1926-1991) was one of Poland's best known political activists. He was also a writer and a literary critic. As a soldier in the Home Army (Armia Krajowa), he fought in the Warsaw Uprising. In 1976, following worker protests, he co-founded the Workers' Defence Committee (KOR). His active opposition to Poland's communist authorities led to his arrest and imprisonment on several occasions. In 1987, he re-established and headed the Polish Socialist Party. Two years later, he was elected to the Polish Senate. He died in 1991 while still in office. For his significant work, Lipski was honoured with the Cross of the Valorous (Krzyż Walecznych), posthumously with the Grand Cross of the Order of Polonia Restituta (1991) and with the highest Polish decoration, the Order of the White Eagle (2006).

Listeners: Marcel Łoziński Jacek Petrycki

Film director Marcel Łoziński was born in Paris in 1940. He graduated from the Film Directing Department of the National School of Film, Television and Theatre in Łódź in 1971. In 1994, he was nominated for an American Academy Award and a European Film Academy Award for the documentary, 89 mm from Europe. Since 1995, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Art and Science awarding Oscars. He lectured at the FEMIS film school and the School of Polish Culture of Warsaw University. He ran documentary film workshops in Marseilles. Marcel Łoziński currently lectures at Andrzej Wajda’s Master School for Film Directors. He also runs the Dragon Forum, a European documentary film workshop.

Cinematographer Jacek Petrycki was born in Poznań, Poland in 1948. He has worked extensively in Poland and throughout the world. His credits include, for Agniezka Holland, Provincial Actors (1979), Europe, Europe (1990), Shot in the Heart (2001) and Julie Walking Home (2002), for Krysztof Kieslowski numerous short films including Camera Buff (1980) and No End (1985). Other credits include Journey to the Sun (1998), directed by Jesim Ustaoglu, which won the Golden Camera 300 award at the International Film Camera Festival, Shooters (2000) and The Valley (1999), both directed by Dan Reed, Unforgiving (1993) and Betrayed (1995) by Clive Gordon both of which won the BAFTA for best factual photography. Jacek Petrycki is also a teacher and a filmmaker.

Tags: Armia Krajowa

Duration: 4 minutes, 53 seconds

Date story recorded: October 1989

Date story went live: 09 March 2011