And so how did I get out? I got out by going… going to college, and I deliberately chose a school… I didn't know anything about the damn place, but I knew that they were mostly not… they were not Jews, and I was curious. What will it be like? What will it be like? So I went and I discovered something, I suppose. I guess I became familiar… I began to become familiar with the Others and was at ease with the Others.

[Q] That's the Others with a capital O?

Yeah, the Others with a capital O. All the Others… and now, it was a very conservative school. The Others there were all white, all Caucasian, mostly from… mostly from American stock, as opposed to immigrant stock. So there… now, I don't want to make it sound too planned, that I planned this, or that I went out there observing, I had my job to do, I was a student, I studied, I had friends, I had a girlfriend and so on. But I was in a new environment and there wasn't a Jew in back of me, and alongside of me and in front of me, which was interesting. I think that was the beginning of my… of my little discovery of America.