There were meetings galore when I started but they were meetings dominated by surgeons. Any- well not any day of the week, but any year, every few months, I could've gone to a surgically oriented meeting and heard about progress in transplantation. When I first went to Edinburgh Roy Kahn showed up. Roy Kahn, the very distinguished transplantation surgeon, later Professor of Surgery in Cambridge, and he was, in the way that surgeons are, he was open-minded, breezy, impressed, wanted to talk about it all. And that was lovely. It's a bit different from talking from- to another professional, but certainly that was going on. And perhaps that's always around medical science. There's always penumbra of doctors and surgeons who really need the results. They- they need to sort out their own ideas in the light of those results, and the biggest, maybe, the biggest meetings, I'm not sure that they're the most successful ones, often have that element very strongly represented.