This newer interest in the sense, not older interest, but newer focusing on psychiatric and emotional factors in physical illness, which obviously has been a concern down the centuries, obviously right back to Hippocrates, but now they're getting sort of handles on it. And, again, some people who are sort of anti my kind of medicine would say: you know, you've never admitted that social-emotional things might affect whether you've got a cancer or not. On the contrary, I think it's only too likely, but again, I come back to evidence and, as you know, people have come both to good and to harm by that approach. I mean, for example, this thing about, you know, if you think the right thoughts your cancer will go away. I find that unutterably cruel and making people guilty for their own illness and death. I mean, there've been some horrible things done. They based – as we've done horrible things – on dogma and, of course, that is the great enemy, isn't it, being enthralled. That's why I think, I truly think, without being overmodest most good, good doctors are very pragmatical and you've got a... You know, the same thing is some unfortunate parents killing children off because they know the right thing to feed them on which doesn't happen to have any calories or protein or things you need to live and that kind of rejection of scientific medicine is, is terribly painful. There was a guy – I didn't look after him, but there was a case at St George's where – and the interesting thing was, I think the paediatricians handled it very tactfully. Belief is a pretty hard thing to get at. Did you notice Mr Blair said, 'I know what I believe', instead of saying, 'I believe what I know', which is what you and I would say. Isn't that disgraceful? That's what he said at the party conference. Sorry, what we were talking about?

[Q] That's why we're in the hole we're in.

Exactly.