Then a few years later, I think 1963 – four years later – McCarthy went to, moved to Stanford but I had met Seymour Papert; in a sort of remarkable way we were both at some meeting in England and presented the same paper on some kind of machine learning idea, but it was exactly the same fragment of mathematics that we had both discovered separately and it turned out that for most things, if you asked a question we’d both give the same kind of possible answer. So we became co-directors and then a few years later Papert started his own laboratory to develop educational systems for young children and one of my former students, Patrick Winston who was a very original creative theorist in artificial intelligence was there, and I asked him to be co-director.

So, through this whole period, if there was an important decision to make and I couldn’t make it, I would just go home and Papert or Winston or... whoever, the co-director, would make the decision and I’ve never understood since then why anybody would want to be the director of a company. And, in fact, generally, I find those people become rather... they enjoy the power and the making of unpleasant decisions and generally I don’t get along with them very well. But apparently there’s... there's two ways of running an organization and I’ve seen very few cases where there’s a pair of directors, but I think the Google twins might be an example and... so that sort of thing does happen here and there.