They had very good visiting... Cornell had a very good visiting professorship and people came, you know, for 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks at a time and that really was the most interesting part of the curriculum because well, Rudolph came at that time. People came from the West Coast, the Bay Area, people came from South America and it was a very interesting group of visiting professors.

[Q] Who was the dean?

The dean was a man named Mackesey. Terrible, he was a city planner.

[Q] So, who was the...

There was no, there was no main... it was more the environment and the sort of the students who were there that, you know, sort of, gave it its flavour rather than the faculty.

[Q] Peter Eisenman, too?

Peter was a student. He was one year behind me at Cornell. He began in Liberal Arts and changed to Architecture. And he was a... he spent a lot of time as a cheerleader.

[Q] You are related?

Yes, Peter is a distant cousin. Peter Eisenman is a distant cousin who... we became friends at Cornell and continued to see one another ever since. And Peter was instrumental actually at the conference... in creating the conference that existed at the Museum of Modern Art that then resulted in the [New York] Five Architects book.