I… I was on a stage for a conference with… and… and one… one of the people was Jules Feiffer, one of the people was Ralph Ellison. And we got to talking about Madame Nhu. And… you know, I… I was kind of fascinated… I'd been fascinated with gamelan orchestras and things like this, so I… and I had read up a little bit about her and whatnot. And Ralph said suddenly: 'You know, I get to thinking about it. If I had been raised a strict Roman Catholic as she was, and I was in that position and… and had the things that she had had all her life, I'm not sure how differently I would have behaved'. And I suddenly had this surge of, you know, hu… humanity. You know, I think, Jesus, there's a real man talking. There's a… there's a real person and somebody who knows himself, and… and isn't trying to pat himself on the back all the time and tell us how moral and... and so forth he is, and the rest of the world is not. And I think that… that had a big influence on me there. And… and, and I thought: Ok, let's look at some of those sides of oneself.