I think there have been quite substantial ones, particularly a continuing decline of deference, thank goodness, which of course is part of a  larger societal thing and a longer historical background. I mean, you can only think about, about the affair of King Edward VIII and Mrs Simpson being totally hidden from the country before the Bishop of Bradford blew the gaffe, and then even more recently nobody knew about Churchill being so ill and having strokes, because...

[Q] And he was actually, actually receiving people, wasn't he, while he, while he was ill and nobody, and nobody was kind of allowed to know that.

And we, you know, hoi polloi, just the general people of the country weren't supposed to be involved in this. And people like, say, Harold Nicholson going in as a parliamentary candidate to some poor place, where he'd never even look at the actual constituents at all because that was what you did and the people just followed or accepted it.

I think the analogue in medicine was the fact that, certainly when I was a student, it was doctor telling patients what's what most of the time. And I think that has changed quite substantially although as you, you and I know, you still see pretty big echoes of it sometimes in, in medical practise.

[Q] What do you think it was that started the change, Harold? I mean, because, post-war, for me anyway, it was still quite a commanded, controlled sort of society, wasn't it?

Yes, yes.

[Q] I mean there were ration books, there were, you know, people did what they said. I mean the... Caribbeans came to Brixton and were told in the first, the... Empire Windrush this is where you sleep tonight. It was very...

Yes. It was like that. I don't really know, was it to do with the general economic well-being? There just weren't as many terribly poor people who couldn't possibly have a say and having some food and housing, I suppose, makes you feel a bit more entitled to say what you think your rights are. General, general rise of feeling of, of your rights over automatic subservience and you still see when people talk to people the body language shows that somebody is addressing somebody and somebody else is receiving the address. I think you see that quite commonly in medicine too as well as in ordinary life and it, it... I have to say, it irritates me extremely.