Every day you had lunch and every lunch consisted of your going to any table you wish in the dining room where you were served, believe it or not – you didn't just do it cafeteria style, you were served in high style – and you had the opportunity to mix with very great scientists. And it wasn't the question of parts of departments; there was no such thing. You mixed accordingly. And that influence was perhaps larger than anything a single mentor could have done. It was an opportunity to see all the different ways that these remarkable scientists thought, independent of their disciplines, although of course they were ensconced in them.

[Q] Who were they?

Well, let me give you one example of the kind of tone that could be established. I don't know if you remember the name of George Kotzias – he's no longer with us – but Kotzias was the man who... very vigorous Greek, who was in hospital with me at the Rockefeller. I was an assistant physician at the time, he was an associate; and he was a kind of flamboyant figure, very assertive but very imaginative. And one day we went for lunch, not together, but we landed up at the same table, and at this table was René Dubos, perhaps the greatest high priest of microbiology and virology of the time and a remarkably broad scholar, and a little man named Max Theiler who got a Nobel prize in plant biology... in virology, as a matter of fact. And George joined us; I was at the table, and he sat between Theiler and... and Dubos, and he said at one point in the conversation, 'Max, how many papers have you got?' And, if I remember correctly, Theiler said something like, 'Seven.' And he turned to René Dubos, and he said, 'René, how many papers you got?' And Dubos said, 'Mmm, maybe 400.' He said, 'René, can I ask you a question?' He said, 'Yeah, what?' He said, 'How come you ain't got the Nobel Prize?' And there was that degree of exchange, of both humor and mordancy, and that had an immense effect – that one and a half to two hours was the most important part of the day.