I also failed to mention that in the construction of his laboratory, Rockefeller, he had a balcony built above the lab with, I believe, a glass... glass between the balcony and up to the ceiling. But this balcony allowed him to encourage writers and journalists to visit the lab, walk down this balcony and try to see these strange black figures roaming around the laboratory – that is, a black laboratory – doing cell culture.
The downside of that gave to the field of cell culture something that it's only recently, in my judgement, outlived and that is a feeling of 'black magic', that cell culture was a black art. That indeed existed for decades, well into the... certainly through the '60s and possibly even into the '70s. No one can measure this accurately but in my judgement, it lasted for a very long time and most of the people, certainly in the '60s, knew this very well.