During the years before I was a publisher, and when I was a graduate student, and even after I was a graduate student, I was a sailor also.  I was in the Merchant Marine.  But in this period when I was, I think, in graduate school, or studying, I think, comparative literature at Indiana.  But only, not… can't remember anymore what my academic life was while I was driving a cab at night.  And I don't even recall any longer how I came to drive a cab at night, but I must have known somebody who was doing that, who was my age.  And what was good about it was - I never liked authority very much -and you were by yourself in the cab so you had a degree of freedom.  Of course, you had to bring in money for the cab drive, for the cab company.

But I, so, I got my hackman's license, which was not difficult to get.  You had to pass a test on New York City to get your hackman's license, but it was not so difficult.  It would say: where is Yankee Stadium?  And so, you would say: the Bronx.  They might then say: how do you get there?  And you would tell them how you got there.  And they asked 20 or 30 questions about famous places.  Anyway, I did well enough to get my hackman's license.  A hackman's license is about yea big and has your picture on it, in which everybody looks like a felon, including me.