But mostly I was just sitting with the graduate students learning from them. There was a very good group of graduate students. Besides Scalettar there was Ed Lennox who became a biologist and did actually very well; and there was...

[Q] Brown, Laurie Brown, was he there already?

I don't know whether he was there at that point, but Leonard Egis was, who was actually also a very close friend, and Paul Hough who became an experimenter; and Walter McAfee who was my first introduction to the black world. He was a black American and from an entirely different world, but I loved him dearly. He died a few years ago. But he'd had a hard time getting established, but it was lucky he to go to Cornell because of the GI Bill. He'd worked for the Army during the war in the Signals Corps, I think, but he was much older than the rest of us, and he already had a wife and couple of kids, so he lived in town, not in the dorms.

[Q] And this was an introduction to the world of discrimination in the United States?

Well it wasn't so much discrimination, because he was not discriminated against.

[Q] No, not at the University, but in town?

I don't think so. I think he was treated pretty well. I mean my impression of him was that he was in no way complaining. I mean he was very happy with his life and he wasn't full of anger in any way, he was just a different kind of person. I mean he was fanatically interested in baseball. He was much more of a sort of a real American than most of the others. And he had made it, I mean he was obviously on his way up and afterwards he went went back to the Army and worked in the Signal Corps at Fort Monmouth.