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What is a trade union?

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Kazio Świtoń's trade unions
Jacek Kuroń Social activist
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And suddenly... we had quite a strong position in Silesia... and suddenly, Kazio Świtoń organised trade unions in Katowice. When he set up these trade unions, we were furious because according to our predictions, he had no... he didn't represent anyone while we only represented a few people. He got Władek Sulecki involved but he stuck his neck out too far and so the police came down on them heavily with batons and of course smashed up everything, every last bit of our work in Silesia, isolating Kazio Świtoń, and that was that. Occasionally, Kazio would make himself heard and he called for free trade unions. Leszek Moczulski usually boasts that he managed to set up a free trade union in Katowice and pushed for having a free trade union on the coast where there was a very good group. Wałęsa was already there, Ania Walentynowicz, Bogdan Rusewicz, Andrzej and Joanna Gwiazda and a sizeable group of workers around them, a sizeable group of workers. Suddenly, Moczulski used his own people to try and set up a free trade union on the coast, and that's when Krzyś Wyszkowski came to see me with a letter from Bogdan in which he said he knew, they knew that Moczulski wants to set up a free trade union with them because his explanation was it's true that we don't have anyone right now, but this is a plate, so let's put the plate in position because the time will come when soup will begin to drip down, and we'll be able to catch this soup in our plate. So Bogdan wrote a letter and said this was futile, if you show your colours it'll come to nothing. Łuczywo from Robotnik had rightly said this earlier because there were quite a few groups that wanted to set up organisations, institutes and to show their colours. He said a group like that could be set up but only in places where the people had their own capacity to defend themselves, because what happened with Kazio was that when he got arrested, we had to export the revolution to Katowice. Week after week we used the people in Wrocław, Kraków and Warsaw to leaflet the area. The police attacked the people while we carried on leafletting on the premise that as long as we're handing out leaflets, organising some action, they've got so much shit to deal with that it's better, worse, worse... it's better to set Świtoń free than to have him locked up. And that's what happened - they let Świtoń out. Fine, that was him but if we're to organise a whole operation using all our resources in defense of one person who took it into his head to show his colours - we can't do that. However, I believed that on the coast this was possible, that here Łuczywo's law came into its own. Namely, there really was a community here that was able to defend the committee. And it was in this spirit that I expressed myself and it was in the same spirit that the editorial board of Robotnik expressed itself, because Bogdan asked them for their opinion and as a result, free trade unions were set up on the coast. As we know, this turned out to be an exceptionally worthwhile and sensible thing to have done.

I nagle... Na Śląsku myśmy jako tako stali... I nagle nam Kazio Świtoń zorganizował na... w Katowicach Wolne Związki Zawodowe. Jak zorganizował Wolne Związki Zawodowe, to nas szlag trafił zupełny, dlatego bo to zgodnie z przewidywaniami on nie miał, nie reprezentował żadnymi ludźmi, my... nielicznymi. Ściągnął jeszcze Władka Suleckiego, ale za to wysoko podniósł sztandar, no i policja jak runęła z pałkami, to oczywiście wypieprz rozpieprzała cały... wszystkie szczątki naszej roboty na Śląsku, wyizolowała tego Kazia Świtonia i to jest to, że Kaziu od czasu do czasu dawał głos, nazywając to Wolne Związki Zawodowe. Przechwala się zwykle tym Leszek Moczulski, że on tam poradził założyć ten Wolny Związek Zawodowy w tych Katowicach i zaczął przeć na to – powołać Wolny Związek Zawodowy na Wybrzeżu gdzie była bardzo dobra grupa. Tam już był Wałęsa, już Ania Walentynowicz, Bogdan był Rusewicz, Andrzej Gwiazda i Joanna Gwiazdowie i spora grupa robotników wokół nich, spora grupa robotników. I nagle tam Moczulski przez swoich ludzi chciał po prostu powołać Wolny Związek Zawodowy Wybrzeża i wtedy przyjechał do mnie Krzyś Wyszkowski z listem od Bogdana, że właśnie on wie, oni wiedzą, że Moczulski chce założyć u nich Wolny Związek Zawodowy, bo tłumaczy to tak: "Tak, rzeczywiście teraz nie będziemy mieli ludzi, ale to jest talerz, ustawiamy talerz, który przyjdzie taki czas, że będzie ciekła zupa; zupa nam w ten talerz nacieknie". I Bogdan napisał taki list, a Bogdan mówił, że przecież to jest "działanie w gwizdek, a trzeba działać w koła, jak się wywiesza szyld to to jest działanie w gwizdek". Wtedy Łuczywo z Robotnika już nieco wcześniej sformułował taką prawidłowość, bo takich grup, które chciały zakładać jakieś tam organizacje, instytucje, szyldy wieszać było sporo w kraju. Powiedział, że można powołać taką grupę, ale tylko tam gdzie środowisko ma własne siły, żeby się bronić. Bo z Kaziem było tak, że jak Kazia posadzono, to myśmy musieli eksportować tę rewolucję do tych Katowic, tydzień w tydzień robić tam akcję ulotkową siłami Wrocławia, Krakowa, Warszawy – tamta policja ludzi tłukła, myśmy ulotkowali, wychodząc z takiego założenia, że jak się tam ulotkuje, robi akcję to... oni mają takie gówno na głowie, że im się to bardziej, miej opłaca, że im się mniej... bardziej opłaca Świtoń na wolności niż Switoń w więzieniu. I tak też się stało, oni Świtonia puścili. No dobra no, ale jak my mamy całą akcję... całej... wszystkimi naszymi siłami robić w obronie kogoś, kto szyld se zachciał wywiesić – to nie można. Natomiast uważałem, że na Wybrzeżu można, że to jest właśnie to prawo Łuczywy tu się sprawdza. Mianowicie, rzeczywiście jest tu środowisko, które potrafi obronić ten komitet. W tym duchu wypowiedziałem się ja i w tym  duchu wypowiedziała się redakcja Robotnika, którą Bogdan pytał o radę i w rezultacie na Wybrzeżu Wolne Związki Zawodowe powołano. I to się okazało niesłychanie cennym i sensownym posunięciem.

The late Polish activist, Jacek Kuroń (1934-2004), had an influential but turbulent political career, helping transform the political landscape of Poland. He was expelled from the communist party, arrested and incarcerated. He was also instrumental in setting up the Workers' Defence Committee (KOR) and later became a Minister of Labour and Social Policy.

Listeners: Marcel Łoziński Jacek Petrycki

Film director Marcel Łoziński was born in Paris in 1940. He graduated from the Film Directing Department of the National School of Film, Television and Theatre in Łódź in 1971. In 1994, he was nominated for an American Academy Award and a European Film Academy Award for the documentary, 89 mm from Europe. Since 1995, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Art and Science awarding Oscars. He lectured at the FEMIS film school and the School of Polish Culture of Warsaw University. He ran documentary film workshops in Marseilles. Marcel Łoziński currently lectures at Andrzej Wajda’s Master School for Film Directors. He also runs the Dragon Forum, a European documentary film workshop.

Cinematographer Jacek Petrycki was born in Poznań, Poland in 1948. He has worked extensively in Poland and throughout the world. His credits include, for Agniezka Holland, Provincial Actors (1979), Europe, Europe (1990), Shot in the Heart (2001) and Julie Walking Home (2002), for Krysztof Kieslowski numerous short films including Camera Buff (1980) and No End (1985). Other credits include Journey to the Sun (1998), directed by Jesim Ustaoglu, which won the Golden Camera 300 award at the International Film Camera Festival, Shooters (2000) and The Valley (1999), both directed by Dan Reed, Unforgiving (1993) and Betrayed (1995) by Clive Gordon both of which won the BAFTA for best factual photography. Jacek Petrycki is also a teacher and a filmmaker.

Tags: Silesia, Katowice, Warsaw, Kraków, Robotnik, Wrocław, Kazimierz Świtoń, Władek Sulecki, Leszek Moczulski, Lech Wałęsa, Anna Walentynowicz, Bogdan Rusewicz, Andrzej Gwiazda, Joanna Gwiazda, Krzysztof Wyszkowski, Witold Łuczywo

Duration: 3 minutes, 6 seconds

Date story recorded: 1987

Date story went live: 12 June 2008