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Joining the PEN Club

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Censored correspondence
Julia Hartwig Poet
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[Q] I have a question: if you mentioned that there was an exchange of correspondence between Turowicz and you, those would have been letters that were sent... were mailed with...

Yes, those are letters that had envelopes and so they were mailed...

[Q] So you took into account the fact that the censors would have read them?

Well, it turned out that, I mean, it was said that... we don't know if all of the correspondence was read, that the letters were simply opened, read and put back into the envelopes and sent as if they'd never been tampered with. But we had to assume this was happening because despite everything, Turowicz was seen as one of the prime enemies of the system and we ourselves weren't seen as exactly orthodox in our daily lives because we never joined the party but we had a very active social life. This changed my life slightly in that I began... I allowed myself to get drawn into the running of the Writers' Union. At first, I was a member of the committee, then I was vice-chairman for six years... vice-chairman later... first in the ZLP [Związek Literatów Polskich (Polish Literary Union)] and then, when the ZLP betrayed us and crossed over to the martial side, we formed a new union called the Association of Polish Writers which perhaps sounds a little pompous, but it was necessary so that we could cut ourselves off from those others who were fully behind the imposition of martial law and even made distasteful allusions to those who weren't in support of it, which included many writers. To be honest, there had already been a breakthrough in the outlook among the more significant people.

[Q] A mam takie pytanie: jeśli mówiła Pani o tej korespondencji między Turowiczem a Wami i to były listy, które były... szły... były wysyłane z... pocztą z...

Tak... to są listy, które mają koperty, czyli wysyłane pocztą...

[Q] Czyli liczyliście się z tym, że to jednak cenzorzy czytają.

No okazało się, że... znaczy, to... mówiono – nie wiadomo czy wszystką, całą korespondencję tak sprawdzano – że po prostu odklejano te listy, czytano i je z powrotem... je wysyłano jak gdyby w stanie nietkniętym. Ale musieliśmy się z... tym liczyć, dlatego że mimo wszystko Turowicz był uważany za jednego z wrogów – jeden wobec systemu – no a myśmy także nie byli uważani znowu za takich bardzo ortodoksyjnych w... w życiu codziennym – bośmy nigdy nie byli członkami partii – ale w życiu społecznym braliśmy bardzo często udział. I to troszkę zmieniło właśnie moje życie, że zaczęłam się... że po prostu pozwoliłam się wciągnąć do... do gospodarowania w związku literatów. Początkowo byłam członkiem zarządu, potem byłam wiceprezesem przez 6 lat – wiceprezesem już potem... najpierw w ZLP, a potem, kiedy ZLP nas zdradziło i przeszło na stronę wojenną to założyliśmy nowy związek – nazywał się Stowarzyszenie Pisarzy Polskich, co jest... co brzmi tak może troszkę górnolotnie, ale była konieczność, żeby się odciąć od tamtych ludzi, którzy w pełni popełniali... popierali stan wojenny i nawet robili niesmaczne wycieczki w stosunku do tych, którzy ich nie popierają, to znaczy dotyczące wielu pisarzy. Prawdę mówiąc z takich znaczących nazwisk już dokonał się wtedy taki przełom jak gdyby w poglądach ludzi.

Born to a Polish father and a Russian mother, Julia Hartwig (1921-2017) was a Polish poet, essayist, translator and author of children's books. She studied at the University of Warsaw, the Catholic University in Lublin and the Jagiellonian University in Kraków. Czesław Miłosz called her 'the grande dame of Polish poetry'. Julia Hartwig was one of the few poets in Poland who made masterly use of poetic prose. She translated poems by Apollinaire, Rimbaud, Max Jacob, Cendrars and Supervielle, and published monographs on Apollinaire and Gerard de Nerval. She also translated from English, and published a large anthology of American poetry which she co-edited in 1992 with her late husband, the poet Artur Międzyrzecki.

Listeners: Andrzej Wolski

Film director and documentary maker, Andrzej Wolski has made around 40 films since 1982 for French television, the BBC, TVP and other TV networks. He specializes in portraits and in historical films. Films that he has directed or written the screenplay for include Kultura, which he co-directed with Agnieszka Holland, and KOR which presents the history of the Worker’s Defence Committee as told by its members. Andrzej Wolski has received many awards for his work, including the UNESCO Grand Prix at the Festival du Film d’Art.

Tags: ZLP, Związek Literatów Polskich, Polish Literary Union, Association of Polish Writers, Jerzy Turowicz

Duration: 1 minute, 54 seconds

Date story recorded: June 2010

Date story went live: 14 June 2011