We present the entire model. And then we did a series of things. There were two conferences... Yes, there were two articles. Because I wrote my article on that. I don't remember what Sydney wrote. And Monod wrote a general thing, which were the teleonomic conclusions, as he called them.

[Q] Can you tell us what teleonomy is because it's... What was it? Well, I think that it meant... it was to say... oriented towards an end, but without using the traditional word.

Yes, that's it. So as not to speak of theology, he would speak of teleonomy. That's exactly it. So that's the word that... so yes, that's right.

[Q] But you were sort of the stars of that Cold Spring Harbor...

Yes. At that Cold Spring Harbor, we really were the stars, because we arrived with something fresh and we came out with that... wait a minute, let me see because we weren't really the stars because Jim was also there with the DNA. No, that was earlier. It was in 1958. This one was in 1961. This one was in 1961. Jim, when was it? Because there had been a Cold Spring Harbor... I really didn't understand that article or I didn't really pay close attention to the Nature articles. But I attended a Cold Spring Harbor where Jim was explaining his model. I don't know if you remember Jim with his shirt hanging out... I saw him when he was older... I didn't see him at that time. There are photos of him with his shirt hanging out, his finger in the air to show... with his inimitable way of speaking... and at that point, his model was very clear.

[Q] But that must have been in 1953, don't you think? It must have been straight away after the 'Nature' article.

You're right, it was in 1953.

On annonce l'ensemble du modèle. Et alors là on a fait plusieurs trucs. Il y avait deux conférences... Oui, il y avait deux papiers. Parce que moi j'ai fait le papier sur cette histoire là. Sydney a fait je ne sais plus quoi. Et Monod a fait le truc général, qui était les conclusions théléonomiques, comme il disait.

[Q] Vous pouvez dire ce que c'est théléonomie d'ailleurs parce que c'est... c'était quoi? Ben je crois que ça voulait dire que... C'était pour dire... orienté vers une fin, mais ne pas utiliser le mot traditionnel.

Oui, c'est ça. Pour ne pas parler de théologie, il parlait de théléonomie. C'est exactement ça. Alors ça c'est le mot qui... Alors, oui c'est exact.

[Q] Mais vous étiez un peu les vedettes de ce Cold Spring Harbor...

Oui. A Cold Spring Harbor, on a été vraiment les vedettes, parce que là on est arrivé avec le truc tout frais et on a sorti ça... Attendez voir, parce que on n'était pas tellement les vedettes parce qu'il y avait Jim qui est arrivé avec l'ADN aussi. Non, c'était avant. C'était en 58. Là, c'était 61. Ça c'était 61. Jim, c'était quand? Parce qu'il y a eu un Cold spring... Moi, J'ai rien compris à l'article ou je n'ai pas lu beaucoup de très près les articles de Nature. Mais j'ai été à un Cold Spring Harbour où il y avait Jim qui a raconté son modèle. Je ne sais pas si vous voyez Jim avec la chemise sortie... Je l'ai vu plus âgé... Je l'ai pas vu à cette époque-là. Il y a des photos de lui avec la chemise dehors, le truc en l'air pour montrer-Avec sa façon de parler inimitable. Et là, c'était très clair, le modèle.

[Q] Mais ça devait être juste en 53, non? Ça devait être juste après l'article de 'Nature'.

Vous avez raison, c'était en 53.